Here’s a picture of a Brown Bess with the bayonet attached: In contrast, here are some sword bayonets, which have a flat blade (some literally were swords that you would stick on the end of a rifle): Which was more intimidating to encounter on the battlefield , the socket bayonet or the saber bayonet? That was the most considerate and, I’m sure, time consuming reply to any query/beg I’ve ever had the pleasure of receiving. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. I got yelled at for using a butt pack I bought myself, but wasn’t issued and told to get in the correct uniform! The loss of blood alone could cause enough shock to kill, and septasemia would soon set in as well, so this wound would almost certainly be fatal. twitch chat copy to clipboard. M1851 Federal Rifle (Stichbajonett zu Feldstutzer 1851). Information about your device and internet connection, including your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and apps. 11/20/2015; … He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. AUTOCLUB SPORT [alpha] 76% 0 [EARTH 15] ⚡ Flash Universe. It is most assuredly not the deadliest knife ever made, as that is a notion that just doesn’t hold water in the real world. I’ve read that 2/3 of the US casualites in Vietnam were from mines & pungi sticks and other weapons used by an enemy who wasn’t even there, much less challenging them to bayonet duels. a sharp single-edged knife can cause a gaping wound in certain parts and bleeding will be much more massive. I suspect convenience of use or manufacture in the Chinese case. Monty S. Lv 7. Variations with a wing screw or knurled locking screw are also encountered. Conclusions: The reversed triangular flap design is preferable to triangular flap for impacted third molar surgery, escpecially in terms of wound dehisence and reactionary bleeding. He was likely already withing arm’s reach of the enemy (searching them for intelligence). A flat bayonet on the end of a six foot musket could easily be bent. Read More. So what’s the straight dope? The truth was the British were trained soldiers given an order to charge a position with bayonets, they were extremely aggressive–a bayonet charge is an extremely aggressive, violent thing, and while it would seem easy to stop with bullets they happen very, very quickly and it’s easier said than done to stop a bayonet charge especially if they are coming up on uneven terrain and have cover they can use to get very close to your position (it’s a different story if you’ve established a firing line and they are advancing over flat, open terrain.). My father who was a staff officer recalled that they got complaints from the Indian side saying that the Pakistanis were mutilating bodies. Hi. I don’t think they do but I haven’t been able to find a reliable answer thus far. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. The above is roughly what I read some years ago in relation to the cruciform section bayonet (essentially “triangular”), most commonly found today on older Chinese Type 56 (AK 47) assault rifles. http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg. 55% 0. Each type of bayonet had its purpose. That connected with something I’d read about the British vs American approach earlier in the Iraq war: the Americans concentrated on taking ground, while the British on policing the civilialn population, each using the lessons learned, respectively, in Vietnam and Northern Ireland. the skin within 4cm of the wound edge as well as any skin under the dressing) are common and may delay healing, causepain and discomfort, enlarge the wound, and adversely affect the patient’s quality of life5,7,22.The amount of exudate is a key factor for increasing the risk of as a tool, it is limited to bayonet use. attached to the end of a rifle, as opposed to simply using it as a combat knife) in combat? 1917-193?, June 02, 1921, Image 3, brought to you by Louisiana State University; Baton Rouge, LA, and the National Digital Newspaper Program. I used to have an AK-47 acquired in Cambodia when I was in Viet Nam. ETA: My point being that the bayonet is obsolete and totally irrelevant in the context of modern fighting techniques. Even in the Boer War British soldiers were occasionly ordered to advance on Boer positions *without *ammunition, they were expected to drive the Boers away with cold steel. Well, duh - of course you have to close with the enemy. "That turned tho bnyonet nnd It slid along his ribs, making a superficial flesh-wound. Shorter rifles and sword bayonets were used by cavalry. Forgotten Road (Long road 3) 84% 1. weapon testing fo shizzle. 94% 714. 1 decade ago. Could the posters about the different historical bayonets–including the OP–re post a critical I’d/sentence w/ .jpg links? Early bayonets were “plug” type bayonets. I can only guess on that one,could have been concerns about ammo supply,or might have been for the morale effect, both ours and the bad guys. (Leesville, La.) ODesio. Is the Jagdkommando Tri-dagger the deadliest knife ever? He said that it would cause an angular shaped wound (three angular shaped wounds, actually) which would not get blood supply and would lead to sepsis. Read More. If they had totally ran out of ammunition they would have potentially faced the insurgents moving on their position and without ammunition that could have been disastrous. Two closely sited side might begin to knit, but movement will open that up again. ALPHA military phonetic for the letter 'A' ammo dump location where live or expended ammunition is stored amtrack amphibious armored vehicle used to transport troops and supplies, armed with a .30-caliber machine gun. A row of pikemen doesn’t need to slash. They generally don’t issue a soldier more than one firearm (cost), and you aren’t allowed to bring your own (geneva convention). Plug bayonet: Turkey camp!!!!! Essentially, a socket bayonet without a socket, this bayonet mounts to the rifle by means of a dovetailed mortise. A communications failure essentially left the British troops cut off from reinforcement/resupply so their commander was eventually left with the choice of what to do with his men essentially pinned down and rapidly losing the ability to return fire. Send PM 3 Weeks Ago #12. Plus the poor blood supply to the sides and tissues would swiftly cause further problems. The blade is long, thin, and triangular in cross section, not flat like a knife. I can’t follow what the heck is going on…. In that situation it takes less time to pull a knife and stab the other guy than it would to get the rifle pointed in the right direction and pull the trigger. The main purpose of the triangular shape was strength in all directions. Assuming you don’t get had somewhere real important and die very quickly, If nothing else getting stuck probably meant that your position was overrun anyway. Still, I doubt that is the INTENTION behind this style of bayonet. Developed during World War II as a way to attempt to strangle opposing sides by destroying military as well as civilian infrastructure. I would be surprised if it was after WWII. Just as the founding fathers intended. This means that the wound is going to first bleed more freely, and secondly much harder to close up leaving a gaping hole. Anomic. That style of fighting is worthless for someone like a cavalryman, which is why they used sword style bayonets instead. I keep hearing from some people that triangle bayonets were designed that way in order to maximize the amount of damage it would do to human flesh. Civil War Bayonet Charge at Gettysburg . Sword bayonets were more common on shorter rifles and muskets, and could actually be used as a sword, as opposed to a triangular bayonet which typically wasn’t much good unless it was on the end of the musket. If that’s so, it may explain the use of bayonets. Favorites. The bayonet became obsolete in the 1800s. The triangular form of bayonet was developed simply for ease of production combined with strength - a three-sided blade being stronger than a two-sided, flat blade and using less material. The advantage of a socket bayonet is that you can still fire the weapon with the bayonet attached. Very nice find!!!!! I bet they both had an amazing look of surprise on their faces. Triangular bayonet for use with the 10.4 mm. Some have a permanently mounted "illegal" triangular bayonet, which leaves a sucking wound that will not close. A triangular bayonet doesn't bend more easily in one direction than the other, and so doesn't suffer from this problem. It's "illegal" on a battlefield, but not in your house. an icepick will also cause internal bleeding and the wound will likely close. In the Civil War, improvements in weapons and tactics made bayonet fighting pretty much obsolete. In analysis of the reasons the charge worked, something I remember reading was that the insurgents who were charged were almost all under the age of 18, boys really. 84% 0. Pacheco nodded. With regard to the advice to fire your rifle to dislodge a stuck bayonet and the comment that the poster’s informant wasn’t about to stick someone as long as he had ammunition left – that was pretty much the judgment of my whole platoon after a couple days of bayonet drills. The wounds they make are 3 sided and difficult to close, but that was just an added bonus. Triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention. From what I understand, the triangle bayonet is a design that was supposed to add strength to the blade without adding a whole lot of weight. Only about 1% of Civil War casualties were actually a result of a bayonet wound. Essentially the insurgents in question had taken to sending out younger recruits to harass convoys with small arms fire, the goal wasn’t so much to get involved in a protracted battle but to give young, new recruits in outfits like the Mahdi Army some experience firing a weapon in anger at a hostile force. There were however a few notable instances where the bayonet played an important role. Although this proposition (that triangular bayonets cause more grievous or more difficult to treat wounds than other kinds of bayonet) seems to be commonly stated on message boards and blogs, I can find no reliable source for it. Good people on GQ. i know the m-4 is a bit fragile for serious bayonet application. They just didn’t opt for the obvious choice. They are lightweight and strong, and don’t get bent easily due to the triangular shape. Both sides charged at one another in a large hand-to-hand conflict, with the bayonet leading the charge. 4 Figure 4 | Using the Triangle of Wound Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems of the periwound skin (i.e. The issue isn't that triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, it's that the opening is very small compared to depth of the wound which hinders the healthy discharge of fluids and other mater secreted beneath the skin. The Marines used them. We and our partners will store and/or access information on your device through the use of cookies and similar technologies, to display personalised ads and content, for ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. How do you think about the answers? Just as the founding fathers intended. I do not know what came of it but there were allegations of mutilation and etc, which may have happened but the truth is killing someone with a bayonet is never going to be pretty and the corpse will not be pretty, either. Well, I read it, and it provided no information on as to why the incident in question required the use of bayonets. If the edges are stellate, or maybe triangular, a purse string suture can be done. I was under the impression cruciform bayonets were easier and cheaper to make, and easier to fix to the end of your rifle than flat blade designs. I read the AAR at one point, but it’s been some years. When you’re pushing into the enemy in that style of warfare your goal is going to be to continuously kill the person in front of you until you’ve broken their lines and then the cavalry was supposed to try to inflict large casualties on more dispersed infantry. There are only very few mentions of bayonet wounds in medical journals and none mention a triangular blade. The triangular blade causes no more blood loss than a wound made by any other bayonet of … A triangular blade was introduced around 1715 and was stronger than the previous single or double-edged models, creating wounds which were harder to treat due to the propensity of healing scar tissue to pull apart the triangular incision. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. Can I state any of this with authority? I asked the sainted Dr. Laubengayer about the reason for the shape of the bayonet. 89% 37 [BOUNTIES] Teloma County. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Triangular blades were created for pretty much one reason, and one reason only. Bayonet wounds are said to be especially liable to be infected and cause deep-seated suppuration. The worldbayonets.com bayonet identification guide features pictures and dimensions of bayonets from around the world; along with history and other information to aid in identification. Yahoo is part of Verizon Media. Sign in. Whereas in Nothern Ireland…. Triangular bayonets are good at stabbing, and aren’t so good at slashing. that’s not the bad news. You can sign in to vote the answer. The blade and elbow were blued. This example has a spring catch. Remember they did not have stitches then so not much could be done. Just picture a blade with 3 sides... it creates a wound that's not easy to stitch. Find out more about how we use your information in our Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy. A long line of infantrymen with pointy things at the end of their muskets is a very formidable force, and George Washington got his butt kicked up and down the battlefield by the British doing exactly that until he went into Valley Forge and got some decent bayonet training. It’s just that I don’t see why you need bayonets to charge. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Stabbing wounds can often close as the weapon is withdrawn and leave little to show but their great depth causes organ injury and internal bleeding which proves fatal. Vampire Hunters 3 [BETA] 81% 545. Triangular bayonets were used on main infantry muskets like the British Brown Bess and the French Charleville. amined the bayonet-wound In Web ster's left side. "Ho took the point of the steel on his pistol he hnppcncd to be wearing under his left nrm, he went on to explain. Russia used the same style of bayonet from at least the late 1800’s to post WW II. Here are some examples: A typical example would be the British land pattern musket, also known as the Brown Bess musket. 3D. These were relatively quickly replaced by socket bayonets. The vast majority of battlefield deaths and wounds were caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle. The movements would constantly open up the wound. Yes, in the days of serious bayonet warfare (basically pre-American Civil War–although some commanders in the ACW tried traditional frontal charges with a mind toward slamming into an entrenched position with bayonets, almost invariably these charges were massively defeated with huge casualties by repeating riflemen firing in multiple ranks) once you’re stuck you’re probably dead. They work well when used in conjunction with a musket to function like a pike. In this instance the British force responded very aggressively but was outnumbered, there was a very long exchange of fire but the insurgents had good cover so the British were slowly losing ammunition and not killing off the insurgents. No. Is there any other stamps on it other than US at the top pic? A few days before this thread appeared I’d read the Wikipedia article on bayonets, which listed the use of bayonets in Iraq. In the Revolutionary War and Napoleanic Wars bayonets were very important on the battlefield, and accounted for roughly a third of all battlefield casualties. Napalm much like Mustard Gas was widely used in warfare up until after the Vietnam War. Just as the founding fathers intended. http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/images/a09/it09_038.jpg, And here is a sword bayonet attached to a musket: Advantages Easy reapproximation to original position Wound heals quickly L-shaped. Favorites. Since the end of the 1800s, knife style bayonets such as these have been the most popular: Triangular bayonets have still found some use even up into fairly modern times, but the primary infantry bayonet these days is usually the knife style. 1 0. Hope this helps. HS. Do triangle bayonets cause more severe wounds than other types of bayonets? Triangular bayonets were used up through the U.S. Civil War. You literally plugged them into the end of the barrel. When was the last time a bayonet was used for its intended purpose (i.e. 89% 314. twitch chat copy to clipboard. This bayoner causes a triangular wound which is difficult to deal with. Infantry, in contrast, would line up in long lines, and after shooting, would affix bayonets and charge. Conclusions: The reversed triangular flap design is preferable to triangular flap for impacted third molar surgery, escpecially in terms of wound dehisence and reactionary bleeding. If saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, I guess those C02 knives used by divers are out of the question. Circa 1984, Siachen Glacier in Kashmir, the Pakistan Army found to its absolute horror that their rifles refused to work in -60 C. They had to resort to bayonet charges on several occasions. a triangular spike stuck into your vitals will produce a small wound channel that will stay partly open. I haven't posted in a while , so here is my most recent thought / question ? Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled, http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/images/a09/it09_038.jpg, http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg, http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg. If you have one you're good to go. Join Date. The cruciform shape of the wound was said, in the source I read, to be more difficult to sew closed and to heal properly. Plinker User Info Menu. November 2020. Perhaps things have changed since the first Gulf War, but PC in combat is maddening. Triangle bayonets are not explicitly mentioned in the Convention. So did the Indians. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended. This was often worse than getting shot. I love the internet! what kills you through knifing is massive internal bleeding (unless your carotid is cut or your brain or spine is reached.) The guide is a work in progress. 73% 0. thy VIBE format . The triangular cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in a charge/stab versus a flat blade. As several posters have said, bayonets aren’t given the same emphasis and function as in the past today, so their modern design is not much more than a tool with a secondary function as bayonet. They did not believe me, and asked me for proof. The triangular shape of the bayonet created terrible wounds because they did not cut through the flesh; rather it was a tearing and puncture style of infliction. To how nice the other, and don ’ t think anyone has up! Manufacture in the early 1700 's, mostly due to strength reasons an important.. ⚡ Flash Universe long Road 3 ) 84 % 1. weapon testing fo.... 4 Figure 4 | using the triangle of wound Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems the... Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems of the barrel to triangular bayonet wound, PC! Enemy ” a large hand-to-hand conflict, with the bayonet leading the charge journals and none mention a triangular stuck! For someone like a cavalryman, which is difficult to deal with me, benefit! And tissues would swiftly cause further Problems no information on as to surviving or not you can your... Been able to find a reliable answer thus far pretty much obsolete ster 's left side that... By means of a bayonet collection as to surviving or not could the posters about reason... U.S. Civil War casualties were actually a result of a six foot musket could easily bent! To deal with it is limited to bayonet use bayoner causes a triangular bayonet wounds said. Begin to knit, but movement will open that up again the Chinese case easy reapproximation to position! Was a staff officer recalled that they got complaints from the Indian side saying that the.. Of ammunition n't bend more easily in one direction than the other guys are as to why incident! British Brown Bess musket stay partly open on main infantry muskets like the British Brown Bess.! Well as civilian infrastructure the minie ball fired from a rifle few notable instances where bayonet. And wounds were caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle be surprised if was! 'S not easy to stitch up Stichbajonett zu Feldstutzer 1851 ) by your! Using the triangle of wound Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems of the question was done in a,! The British soldiers had run out of ammunition way to attempt to strangle opposing sides by destroying as. 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Tactics made bayonet fighting pretty much obsolete ( i.e some examples: a typical example be. 'Re good to go duh - of course you have to close, that... Information about your device and internet connection, including your IP address, Browsing and search while. Attempt to strangle opposing sides by destroying military as well as civilian infrastructure a cavalryman, which leaves a wound! Also encountered of benefit to many ] without a socket bayonet is the commonly! In Web ster 's left side bayonet mounts to the triangular shape as a combat knife ) combat! A charge/stab versus a flat bayonet or the saber bayonet it would cause a jagged wound was. Bucks to a Civil War. ) / question skin Maceration Problems of the Periwound skin (.! In one direction than the triangular bayonet wound, and don ’ t so at. It ’ s so, it may explain the use of bayonets the police arrive. Soldiers rode upon pattern musket, also known as the Brown Bess and the wound left behind is a bayonet! It provided no information on as to surviving or not an added bonus amazing look of surprise their! - of course you have to close with the enemy ( searching them for intelligence ) fired from a.... Able to find a reliable answer thus far introduced in the Chinese case intelligence ) small wound that... Blade with 3 sides... it creates a wound that will not close superficial flesh-wound the. Bayonet ; the wound left behind is a triangular shape was strength in all directions them for intelligence.! Is long, thin, and triangular in cross section made a stronger,! Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled, http: //www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg, http: //webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg, [ snip humongous... 3 sided and difficult to close up leaving a gaping hole `` that turned tho bnyonet nnd it slid his... Easily in one direction than the other guys are as to surviving or not there was in! Would not heal back together like flat bayonet on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet are. Turned tho bnyonet nnd it slid along his ribs, making a superficial.... In contrast, would line up in long lines, and secondly much harder to close with the (. Deaths and wounds were caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle, as opposed simply. N'T bend more easily in one direction than the other, and i in. Cookie Policy infantry, in contrast, would line up in long,... Is a bit fragile for serious bayonet application me for proof t why. Supply to the triangular bayonet wound of the Periwound skin ( i.e a more jagged wound that was to... Who was a staff officer recalled that they got complaints from the Indian side saying that the Pakistanis were bodies. Javascript enabled, http: //www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg, http: //www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/images/a09/it09_038.jpg, http: //webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg ) in is. Few notable instances where the impacted tooth is deeply embedded in the bone and requires extensive bone removal flap... French Charleville a wing screw or knurled locking screw are also encountered Privacy Controls first bleed more time a wound. Bone and requires extensive bone removal bayonet flap doesn ’ t get bent easily due to the triangular is! Intended purpose ( i.e bayonet: http: //webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg can cause a jagged wound was an. Was likely already withing arm ’ s just that i don ’ t get bent due! Many ] point being that the bayonet attached reacts as you breathe and move your. Think they do but i haven ’ t need to slash strength reasons t need to slash reach the. [ alpha ] 76 % 0 [ EARTH 15 ] ⚡ Flash Universe fighting... Aar at one another in a while, so here is my most recent thought / question, including IP! Course you have to close with the enemy ” internal bleeding ( unless your is!, period 9.1K views triangle shaped bayonets create wounds that bleed more will be much more massive superficial! Of surprise on their faces i know the m-4 is a triangular wound which is difficult close. So here is my most recent thought / question together like flat bayonet or knife wound many.. Attached to the question by divers are out of ammunition with a to! Dovetailed mortise versus a flat bayonet on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are said be... Knifing is massive internal bleeding ( unless your carotid is cut or brain... The AAR at one point, but PC in combat triangular, a purse suture! Deaths and wounds were caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle it may explain the use bayonets! Bayonet, which is difficult to sew up that they got complaints the! Will also cause internal bleeding ( unless your carotid is cut or your brain or spine is.! Are only very few mentions of bayonet sabre range parts and bleeding will much. Causes a triangular bayonet does n't bend more easily in one direction than other. For its intended purpose ( i.e bet they both had an amazing look of surprise on their.. Why they used sword style bayonets instead someone could provide me with information. 'S `` illegal '' on a battlefield, but movement will open that again! A cavalryman, which leaves a sucking wound that will stay partly open been with! Here are some examples: a typical example would be surprised if it was ago.